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#375284 - 2010-07-08 09:41:12 Re: With the US Trapped in Depression, This Really is Starting to Feel Li [Re: fccool]
bonnie Offline


Registered: 2001-06-20
Posts: 6701
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: fccool


Quote:
Bonnie, but that's the entire idea behind insurance. These people don't get it "for free". They pay for it and they are entitled to benefits. I would understand an argument against illegal immigrants getting unemployment benefits (which they can't unless with fraudulent SS#). This is not the case.

I believe the reason for it not being extended this last go around was "it was not paid for" meaning it is coming from the federal coffers(taxpayers) Illegal immigrants just need a anchor baby and all is well on the US taxpayer

Quote:
Social contract is such that requires employers to do that for the benefit of ordering people around. I can and do avoid this by working from home and hiring contractors instead, but I can't set my terms for these people as I would for my employees
Self employment is great if you are prepared that you and your wife are paid last and your sub-contractors come first. Sometimes when you get around to yours it isn't there.




Quote:
. Employees are entitled to certain benefits, because they submit themselves full-time, and sometimes at fraction of the benefit that they provide for their employers. Would you consider "sick leave" to be unjust too?



A employee is entitled to fair pay for eight hours?? a day.They do not submit 24/7 to their employer.The benefits should be between employer and employee.If the employer agrees to sick leave more power to the employee.If it isn't to their liking go where it is
That word entitlement says this is something they have a right to.



Quote:
How about paid Federal holidays? People who pay into the insurance should have the benefit of using it to its full potential. If your car wrecks, and your insurance company covers only enough for you to get back on the road and drive it... I can guarantee you would be up in arms.

I don't see a federal holiday as special. For the convenience and the family time for employee's great.
My car has been wrecked and I was paid exactly what the car was worth.Not what I paid for it,but what I would have paid for it on the day it was wrecked and the condition and mileage at that point



Quote:
If such is the case, then I'd like to cut out half of the military spending, because I know of some military personnel who set their own working time (3 hrs a day) and play computer games to kill the rest of the time... and then boast about it. Does it mean that we should not support military all-together? The same goes for any social workers, or government or church officials?


I don't know any military that behave like that.No,what it means is get rid of those and WITHOUT pay that do not fulfill their duties as a employee.




Edited by bonnie (2010-07-08 09:42:41)
_________________________
'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my gun and my money. You can keep "THE CHANGE".'

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#375301 - 2010-07-08 10:07:33 Re: With the US Trapped in Depression, This Really is Starting to Feel Li [Re: bonnie]
fccool Online   content


Registered: 2008-01-15
Posts: 1875
Loc: Iowa
Bonnie,

You have ignored/dismissed my point about the car wreckage. When you get a car wrecked, the insurance covers it in full. When you get sick, if you pay for decent insurance, it will cover the extensive times in hospital + loss of working hours (mine does). THAT'S WHAT UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE IS :)!!!! IT COVERS UNEMPLOYMENT. I don't understand what part of the insurance you seem to miss here :)?

I'm not advocating welfare here, where people who are capable of working are encouraged to stay poor. We are discussing UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE. People pay into it, and they receive benefits based on what they paid into it. People who earn more, end up paying more indirectly as a "pay cut" that is accounted for by the business owners when offering certain salary.

Please, stop pushing the case that these people don't deserve what they are getting. They are collecting insurance restitution. They are not collecting "free money". You can argue that the federal government should not mandate and extend the State level unemployment rules, but this is not what we are talking about here.

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#375304 - 2010-07-08 10:22:18 Re: With the US Trapped in Depression, This Really is Starting to Feel Li [Re: fccool]
bonnie Offline


Registered: 2001-06-20
Posts: 6701
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: fccool
Bonnie,

You have ignored/dismissed my point about the car wreckage. When you get a car wrecked, the insurance covers it in full. When you get sick, if you pay for decent insurance, it will cover the extensive times in hospital + loss of working hours (mine does). THAT'S WHAT UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE IS :)!!!! IT COVERS UNEMPLOYMENT. I don't understand what part of the insurance you seem to miss here
No I didn't.Wreck your car and you get paid what it is worth.If it is worth 5,000.00 you get 5,000.00 Not what you may want or you decide.

I am not disputing what unemployment insurance is. I am disputing the RIGHT those collecting it have to keep having it extended time and again.It would have been extended had there been money to pay for it.Not there.Comes from the tax payer. My insurance never came from the taxpayer


We always carried Blue Cross-Blue Shield and no it did not cover loss of work time.That required medical disability or your car insurance
It would have been extended had there been money to pay for it.Not there.

Quote:
I'm not advocating welfare here, where people who are capable of working are encouraged to stay poor. We are discussing UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE. People pay into it, and they receive benefits based on what they paid into it. People who earn more, end up paying more indirectly as a "pay cut" that is accounted for by the business owners when offering certain salary.


People on extended unemployment are capable of working as well.Draw unemployment as long as it does not come out of the taxpayer's pocket.Once it does,find a job

Quote:
Please, stop pushing the case that these people don't deserve what they are getting. They are collecting insurance restitution. They are not collecting "free money". You can argue that the federal government should not mandate and extend the State level unemployment rules, but this is not what we are talking about here.


government should not mandate and extend the State level unemployment rules

Precisely what we are talking about.


Edited by bonnie (2010-07-08 10:34:20)
_________________________
'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my gun and my money. You can keep "THE CHANGE".'

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#375327 - 2010-07-08 11:12:59 Re: With the US Trapped in Depression, This Really is Starting to Feel Li [Re: bonnie]
fccool Online   content


Registered: 2008-01-15
Posts: 1875
Loc: Iowa
In this case I'm with you on that.

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#375410 - 2010-07-08 16:51:46 Re: With the US Trapped in Depression, This Really is Starting to Feel Li [Re: bonnie]
pkrause Online   content


Registered: 2000-03-24
Posts: 15177
Loc: Lancaster,MA,USA
Originally Posted By: bonnie
I wonder if that was so those that refused to work year after year could share in the rewards of those that did work hard?
Regardless, that is not what we are dealing with. Nor do I find anywhere in the bible that there are those that are to live of the generosity and hard work of others as a means of support without effort on their part


Bonnie I do agree with you there. But I think we're complaining about a system that does allow this. This system does need to be redone. But neither party wants to do it. The one caters to its people and the other to its people. There are those that abuse the system that I agree with, but there are many that all of a sudden find themselves needing the services that they have been paying into for all these years. For me personally I find myself in limbo, have applied to many jobs, and when I say many I mean many, with only one replying back and that almost as a joke. If I were in my 30s or 40s I'd probably take whatever is available and start going to learn something else. But with a $2000 mortgage and other debt that's pretty high, and having been able to keep up with all this until I got laid off and now my wife out with a back injury that's going to take a while still to heal. Together we made $70-75 an hour. No one wanted a 60+ year old to hire, they would rather hire a younger person and pay them 7 or 8 an hour to start. I have no problem with that. So now we face losing the house, etc. Not trying to cry here, God has been very good, and has kept us here still going along but this will end soon. The system is made so that unless your actually homeless you can't get help, we know because we've tried everything and everybody and unless you can show that you have a job they don't even want to talk to you. So I offically retired, which I didn't want to do to at least my late 60s, same for my wife, who has now applied for SS also. Now if the jubile system were around we would at least be able to work for someone to work off our debt or whatever. Yes the system is not what it should be, but its there to help those that need it. Its to bad there are those that abuse it.
_________________________
pk


"Ask not what your Country can do for you, ask what you can do for your Country" - President John F. Kennedy

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#375415 - 2010-07-08 17:20:58 Re: With the US Trapped in Depression, This Really is Starting to Feel Li [Re: pkrause]
bonnie Offline


Registered: 2001-06-20
Posts: 6701
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: pkrause


Bonnie I do agree with you there. But I think we're complaining about a system that does allow this. This system does need to be redone. But neither party wants to do it. The one caters to its people and the other to its people. There are those that abuse the system that I agree with, but there are many that all of a sudden find themselves needing the services that they have been paying into for all these years.

More than once I have said it is the dead beats,not those that suddenly find themselves caught between a rock and the hard place.Without the deadbeats leeching off the taxpayer for years there would be a safety net for those that have worked hard all their lives and are now up against. I have gotten to know somewhat a young man that works at Wal-Mart.It hurts to watch this young man walk. His legs are badly bent,he was born that way.I don't know how he learned to walk. He is working because the disability he was allowed was not sufficient. You never see him without a smile. Then I know alcoholics that are on disability and seem to do fine.Something is not right with that picture.





Quote:
For me personally I find myself in limbo, have applied to many jobs, and when I say many I mean many, with only one replying back and that almost as a joke. If I were in my 30s or 40s I'd probably take whatever is available and start going to learn something else. But with a $2000 mortgage and other debt that's pretty high, and having been able to keep up with all this until I got laid off and now my wife out with a back injury that's going to take a while still to heal. Together we made $70-75 an hour. No one wanted a 60+ year old to hire, they would rather hire a younger person and pay them 7 or 8 an hour to start. I have no problem with that.

I know it is hard,my husband was forced to retire early due to a series of strokes.And Yes,they do want the younger worker. That is why I started a online business,no one cares and I don't have to leave the us or my husband alone for long periods of time




Quote:
The system is made so that unless your actually homeless you can't get help, we know because we've tried everything and everybody and unless you can show that you have a job they don't even want to talk to you. So I offically retired, which I didn't want to do to at least my late 60s, same for my wife, who has now applied for SS also.


Hopefully your wife can get disability.With good medical records SS really wasn't that hard to deal with.




Quote:
Now if the jubile system were around we would at least be able to work for someone to work off our debt or whatever. Yes the system is not what it should be, but its there to help those that need it. Its to bad there are those that abuse it.


Those that abuse it tend to take so much from the system that there simply is not the funding. With SS possible for you it will be treated as that is sufficient or you should have reserves.
_________________________
'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my gun and my money. You can keep "THE CHANGE".'

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